One of the most hotly debated issues among the Scooby-Doo fandom is the use of fake monsters versus real monsters. Many people feel fake monsters should be exclusively used, to abide by the classic "person in a mask" formula that Scooby started out with. Others don't mind if real monsters are used in the franchise, and some even prefer the use of real monsters because of the dark tone it creates. In my 14 years in the online fandom, I definitely see and respect both sides of the argument, but in this article, I would like to provide another perspective of the fake vs. real monster debate.
I want to start out by providing a brief history of the use of real monsters in the franchise, as compared to the more traditional fake ones. The first real monster appeared in The New Scooby-Doo Movies episode "Mystery in Persia." The episode involved Scooby and the gang teaming up with two genies, Jeannie and Babu, who were trying to get rid of an evil djinn named Jadall. Besides random little cameos that may or may not have been real monsters (i.e. the creatures in the Addams Family house, random talking skeletons that showed up for a moment like in "Hang in There, Scooby-Doo, etc.), the monsters in the franchise remained exclusively fake for the first 10 years of the franchise, besides the one exception with Jadall. Beginning in 1980, when Fred, Velma and Daphne left the show, so did the fake monsters. When they weren't running away from angry doctors and irked carnival owners, the monsters Shaggy, Scooby and Scrappy faced were always real. This lasted until 1983 when Daphne returned to the series. The mystery-solving format returned to the show, although occasional episodes did have plots where the gang was dealing with real spooks. Examples of this include "Scoobygeist," in which Daphne and the guys stay the night in a haunted house, and "A Halloween Hassle at Dracula's Castle," where the gang attends a Halloween Party, which unbeknownst to them, was hosted by real monsters from Dracula's realm. Starting in 1985 with The 13 Ghosts of Scooby-Doo, the plot shifted completely to including only real monsters, as the gang had to help Vincent Van Ghoul recapture 13 of the most terrifying ghosts on Earth. The three Superstars 10 films succeeding the show also included real monsters, although Boo Brothers leaves it open to interpretation if some of the ghosts were real or not. When the franchise went back to its roots in 1988 by getting rid of Scrappy and reintroducing the whole gang as regulars, the real monsters also went out the window as well. No real monsters were included in A Pup Named Scooby-Doo or What's New, Scooby-Doo? (with the exception of the Coral Creature in the latter, who only briefly appears). In between those two series, we did see real monsters in three of the first four DTV films which revived the franchise, which is an interesting phenomenon I will return to later. Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated presented a fascinating balance of real versus fake monsters, as the monster-of-the-week was always a person in a mask, but the overarching plot included supernatural entities. Be Cool and Guess Who included only fake monsters. The DTVs have been inconsistent when it comes to including real monsters, but the vast majority of them were fake. If someone were to ask me to choose between real or fake monsters, I would honestly choose a third option: good writing. While this perhaps seems like a cop-out answer, I don't think real or fake monsters has to be a binary concept like many fans have made it. There are a number of factors that play into this. At its core, Scooby-Doo is about mystery-solving. I think we are all in agreement that if they permanently removed the mystery aspect from the show, it would not feel as much like Scooby-Doo. Even as someone who moderately likes Get A Clue, that's a main reason why the show didn't work for so many people: they changed too much. Going off and fighting criminal masterminds and spies doesn't have that core element of the franchise that people loved. Even the two episodes that did have monsters fell a bit flat, because there was no mystery solving aspect. That being said, I think there are a number of examples of real monsters working because of that mystery-solving element still being present. In Scooby-Doo on Zombie Island, although all the monsters are real, the majority of the movie's plot is still focused on the gang trying to figure out if Simone and Lena's house is haunted. When Morgan Moonscar's ghost carves "get out" into the wall, the gang realizes through looking at the footage that the ghost only shows up on camera. This leads to further investigation throughout the movie, until the eventual realization at the end that the monsters are real when Simone and Lena reveal their true intentions. The same goes for Witch's Ghost: most of the film is dedicated to the gang investigating Oakhaven with Ben Ravencroft, until the huge twist happens at the end when we find out Sarah is a witch. Mystery-solving is still a core aspect throughout those entire films, even though there is a reveal at the end that the monsters were real. Another interesting exhibit for this argument is Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated. Each episode featured a monster that was a person in a mask, but the overarching plot featured a real supernatural entity from ancient times. What made this work so well is that besides the individual mysteries in each episode, the entire plot of the series was a mystery in itself, as the gang put together the pieces of the planispheric disc and discovered the truth behind the old Mystery Incorporated. In contrast, let's look at some examples where it wasn't done well. It's common knowledge that The Richie Rich / Scooby-Doo Show and The Scooby & Scrappy-Doo Puppy Hour aren't exactly the most well-liked shows in the franchise. My opinion used to be that the seven-minute runtime was too short to develop the plot, but my thoughts on that have shifted over the years. Honestly, I don't think I'd want those episodes to be any longer than they were, as most of them would be drudgery to get through for many fans. The plots to all of those episodes consists of Shaggy, Scooby and Scrappy bumping into a real monster, running around, and somehow escaping at the end. There simply wasn't much of a cohesive plot there, and the mystery-solving aspect completely disappeared. Extending the episodes so there could have been 22 minutes of running around aimlessly would not have improved anything, because the plot simply wasn't there. In The Scooby & Scrappy-Doo Puppy Hour, there were some episodes that had Shaggy and the dogs solving cases assigned to them by Shaggy's Uncle Fearless, although the mysteries were poorly developed, and consisted mostly of antics rather than actual investigation. The majority of the cases also had the gang fighting super criminals and gangsters, which did not stay consistent with the format of the franchise. Interestingly, the episodes of The New Scooby and Scrappy-Doo Show and The New Scooby-Doo Mysteries that had real monsters were excellent. The biggest difference for me was that both of these episodes had an actual mystery to them. "Scoobygeist" had the mystery of the gang trying to figure out if the house was haunted or not. Moreover, while some of the "A Halloween Hassle at Dracula's Castle" plot revolved around the real monsters, the episode was still mainly centered around the mystery of Van Helsing's ghost before the shocking reveal at the end. Those of you who know me are aware how much I love Scooby-Doo and the Goblin King. It's a top 10 Scooby film for me, which makes it difficult to say this, but I don't think that film was a good example of how to work real monsters into the plot. The mystery element that makes Scooby what it is wasn't there, which is what makes it feel so different as a film. The whole film has a very fantastical, magical vibe to it, which is what makes it work for me as it puts me in the Halloween mood. If you asked me if I wanted a whole series or more films like it, I honestly think it would be challenging to make that work. Most of what makes it work for me is the Halloween vibe of it, but I don't think I would want to see the franchise go in that direction. It's sort of the same thing as Get a Clue to me; I like the premise fine enough by itself, but it doesn't fit with the format of the rest of the franchise. The same goes for 13 Ghosts of Scooby-Doo: it works fine as a standalone, but the series feels like it's missing the mystery-solving aspect. The fact that the mystery was never wrapped up in the original series hurt it a bit as well. I think these types of series and films can work fine every now and then, but personally, I think the mystery element is more important than whether the monsters or real or fake. Of course, I can't write an article about this without a mention of Curse of the 13th Ghost and Return to Zombie Island, as these two films sparked a lot of discussion of the use of real and fake monsters in the franchise. Ultimately, my issue with these two is that the tone of the original is just not there at all. If they would have made a compelling mystery that expanded upon the original plot, I think I would have enjoyed the films more than I did. However, in Return to Zombie Island, the corny-looking zombies and most of the plot revolving around making a zombie movie on the island is what really made this not enjoyable for me. Between the tone and the lack of expansion on the original, a sequel felt very unnecessary. While some people may have been bothered by the lack of real monsters, I would have been totally open to the monsters being fake if the tone was consistent with the original film. The same goes for Curse of the 13th Ghost. I think both of these films would have been fine as normal DTVs, but the franchise has grown and changed a lot since 13 Ghosts and Zombie Island were made. Making the two sequels in the tone of the current DTVs simply didn't work, and made both films feel completely different from the original material in a jarring way. With Curse of the 13th Ghost, I will say that I really like Tim Sheridan's intentions behind making the film open-ended, where it's possible that the 13th ghost was real, and also possible that it was fake. I like films that really make you think about what might have happened without directly telling you. It's one of the things I love about Boo Brothers. Even after you're done watching the film, you still don't know whether the ghosts were fake or not, even though there was an unmasking. I would love to see another Scooby film do something like that again. The problem with Curse of the 13th Ghost is that Velma's perspective that the ghosts are fake is shoved in the viewer's face so much that we don't really get to hear a compelling argument for what the rest of the gang believes. It was a great way to get around the studio mandate at the time of "no real monsters" for either of those two films (which is a bit silly), but ultimately, Velma's in-your-face perspective is what made Tim Sheridan's otherwise good idea not work in my opinion. All of this said, I respect anyone who may have different beliefs on the matter. Maybe you are someone who feels the monsters need to always be fake to stick with the classic "person in a mask" format, or prefer a more adventure-focused format for the series. That's a perfectly valid opinion to have, and it's understandable why people might feel that way. However, for me, having a compelling mystery that we as viewers can follow along with has always been a plot device I find more important in the franchise than whether or not the monster is real. As I've outlined, there are a number of examples of plots with real monsters being executed poorly. In my opinion, there are just as many plots with fake monsters that have been executed poorly. Many people found some episodes of Guess Who to be flat due to an over-focus on the guest star and not enough mystery, and I agree with that opinion. The best episodes of Guess Who were always the ones that had a compelling mystery and a good balance with the guest star's presence, at least in my opinion. It all just goes to show the question of inclusion of the supernatural doesn't have to be as simple as picking between whether you prefer real or fake monsters. A throughly developed mystery and well-written plot can be just as important, if not more, than abidance to the "person in a mask" tradition within the franchise.
38 Comments
Mr Neither
4/5/2022 08:49:29 am
An interesting perspective and I'd have to agree with it. In short, its the whole not knowing that is key to success. In truth its less about is the monster is real or fake and more about the whole mystery aspect and tone as you stated.
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Jakob123
4/5/2022 10:45:01 am
I can also agree is this, I too understand and respect both sides of the concept as well. But I am not that worried about it
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Jakob123
4/5/2022 10:47:06 am
Oops! I mean agree to this, sorry grammar error. 4/5/2022 02:33:01 pm
I wouldn't say I'm overly worried about it either. Just wanted to provide my thoughts on it, since I know some people feel the monsters absolutely need to be fake, but I think it really depends on the episode. There are lots of examples of real monsters being done well, but just as many examples of them being done poorly.
Mr Neither
4/6/2022 08:43:50 am
To be honest, looking back I think it was as you stated how poorly the two sequels were written that annoyed me most. That Velma constantly being like ghosts aren't real and the destruction of canon from the originals. 4/6/2022 04:01:54 pm
I wouldn't have even minded if Velma was somewhat skeptical, but the fact that it was in-your-face constantly was just too much. It didn't allow for Tim Sheridan's idea of having it be open to interpretation whether the ghosts were real or fake to shine through, since Velma's skepticism silenced the other gang members. 4/5/2022 02:27:41 pm
Thanks! Yep, I definitely respect others' opinions on it, but I don't think whether the monster is real or fake matters as much as the overall mystery. If the mystery is poorly written or not present, it doesn't feel as much like Scooby to me.
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Matt
4/5/2022 03:23:13 pm
I just don’t think Scooby should be trapped in either concept. Both work well when written well. But I personally am less in the camp of that it doesn’t matter which. I am more in the camp of striking a balance. In all likelihood, that balance has more fake than real, but that is what makes the real monsters so impactful
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4/5/2022 04:50:29 pm
I think I understand what you're arguing, but I'm not fully sure. Are you saying that there should be a healthy mix where it's mainly fake monsters, but a few real monsters sprinkled in here and there? If so, I agree with that. I wouldn't want a scenario where there are no real monsters ever, but I don't have a set amount in mind that real monsters need to appear. I would say your idea of having mostly fake and occasionally real would be ideal. I guess personally I prefer smart writing, and don't care as much if they're fake or real, but I also don't want Scooby to be trapped in one concept or the other. The studio mandate of "no real monsters" for Curse of the 13th Ghost and Return to Zombie Island wasn't a good thing, and stifled the writing significantly IMO.
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Matt
4/5/2022 11:28:15 pm
Yes that is basically what I was trying to say lol. Imo, real monsters are best utilized when they are a surprise or change. Think Zombie Island or SDMI, those instances feel special 4/6/2022 07:49:02 am
You make a good point that the instances when there is a real monster feel much more special when it is occasional and not all the time. I think it would feel much less special if they were doing fake monsters all the time. Agreed that balance is definitely the key here.
Jacob Staggs
4/5/2022 06:11:41 pm
I have no qualms about the monsters being real or fake as long as the writing is good. I love the mystery aspect in Where Are You? but besides that series I prefer there to be an adventure format which is why I love Shaggy and Scooby Doo Get a Clue and the seven minute Scrappy shorts.
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4/5/2022 07:03:09 pm
That's a very interesting and well-reasoned perspective, and I appreciate you sharing it! Good character development and dynamics are also very important to me. I really like the group dynamic in Be Cool, but I agree with you Where Are You and Zombie Island is among one of the best gang dynamics. Scooby and Shaggy's friendship is indeed super sweet and important.
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Jacob Staggs
4/5/2022 07:50:07 pm
Even if I basically believe that Daphne, Fred, and Velma were unneeded after ( and a little before) Scrappy's inclusion, I have to give credit where credit is due. Before Pup, I did enjoy Fred's characterization in Happy Birthday Scooby Doo. They really let the writing (and Frank Welker) go beyond the conventions of the character.
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4/6/2022 07:44:14 am
I also really enjoy Fred in "Happy Birthday, Scooby-Doo!" but I was not a fan of Marla's Velma. Her characterization came off very flat and didn't have much personality. I didn't mind Pat Stevens as much, but I enjoy Nicole Jaffe, B.J. Ward and Mindy Cohn more, personally.
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4/5/2022 11:32:19 pm
Personally, I think Scooby is fine without being on one side (be it real or fake monsters) because I love it when you see the whole gang working as a team and escaping from something that at first looks like a real monster, like they did. . in Mystery Incorporated, but it turns out to be the same masked man and in the end we are shown something similar to the end of Scooby-Doo and Samurai Sword, which makes us wonder if they were facing a supernatural entity all along.
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4/6/2022 07:46:27 am
I agree with you. I like the open-ended conclusions like we got in Camp Scare and Boo Brothers, as it really makes you think about whether the monster is real or not after the film is over, and allows the viewer to put together clues themselves to come to their own conclusion. I personally enjoy both the fake and real monster formulas intersecting as well.
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Becker
4/6/2022 04:41:29 am
I love both fake and real monsters. I have no problem with either of them as long as there's the mystery factor, which is what I believe to be the core of Scooby-Doo (one of the many reasons why I'm not a fan of the Scrappy shorts and Get a Clue). I really do not get behind the idea that people in masks is what Scooby is about, I never did. To me, fake and real monsters in the franchise need to coexist. Both of them should be included, with the emphasis more on the fake ones while sometimes featuring real monsters.
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4/6/2022 07:47:33 am
I completely agree fake and real need to co-exist. I also tend to prefer if the emphasis is more on the fake monsters, since that makes it more surprising when the monster is real like Matt mentioned above.
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Becker
4/8/2022 03:06:12 am
Yeah. I might sound like I'm contradicting myself but there are instances of barely any mystery that I enjoy, like 13 Ghosts, Reluctant Werewolf, Ghoul School, Goblin King etc. I guess I worded it wrong; as long as there are still (real) monsters, then no mystery can work if done just for a specific project that requires it for the concept of these types of one-off films and short shows. Those aforementioned projects still have a plot and story, there's a goal to be achieved in all of them and involves beating monsters. These adventure style films/episodes can work if there's a plot and they present monsters, at least to me. Some of the "better" Scrappy shorts, besides the absolute batshit ones, involve (real) monsters which makes them significantly more, I guess, entertaining (while still not being good cuz there's no plot and just 7 minute chase scenes) than the trio just running from an angry cook, a football team, a bulldog... really rock bottom material, hate that dumb stuff. And the spy stuff was never so enthralling for me since it's not really Scooby, like in Get a Clue and even the mid 80s stuff (which is maybe the main thing that drags NSDMy down from my top 4 shows). So yeah, while I still prefer having a mystery, I think no mystery can still work if done right. It's all about good writing at the end of the day. 4/8/2022 07:57:27 am
Couldn't agree more. I like all of those shows and movies as well - especially Ghoul School, Reluctant Werewolf and Goblin King. Like you said, I think the concept works well as just a one-off if the plot requires it, but there needs to be good writing. The Scrappy shorts with real monsters were always the more entertaining ones too me as well, although I still find most of them to not have the best writing. I have a similar opinion on the spy stuff. I'm fine with it occasionally if somehow it advances the plot, but I wouldn't want it all the time. That's one thing that brought The New Scooby-Doo Mysteries for me as well. It seemed like practically every other episode, the culprit was a spy. It was fine the first couple times, but as the series went on, it just got to be too much to the point where you expected it.
whackman
4/6/2022 03:28:26 pm
Tony Cervone posted an unfinished glimpse at Shaggy and Scooby from the upcoming movie, Scoob! Holiday Haunt (2022) here is the link
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4/6/2022 09:02:42 pm
Thanks so much for the info! I just made a post about it.
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James Dixon
4/9/2022 05:55:14 am
Return to Zombie Island is an abomination by people who clearly didn't understand the timely relevance and more importantly didn't like Zombie Island. I don't know how Jeremy Adams (or anybody else) personally felt about Zombie Island, but it clearly shows that Zombie Island wasn't his thing (which is ironic given "Scoobynatural) and instead of leaving it alone, the people at WB abused their powers to unnecessarily retcon it and make a mockery of it for no reason.
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Becker
4/9/2022 11:59:00 am
At least Cecilia Aranovich turned it around after the disasters of 2019, since I enjoyed her Scooby-Doo & Courage: Straight Outta Nowhere more than either of Maxwell's flicks personally. Doesn't seem like she had creative freedom with those maligned sequels. And credit to the writer of Straight Outta Nowhere too, Michael Ryan, who seems to be involved in almost everything Scooby in the last decade lol, his work mostly comprises of some of the better recent films, specials and episodes of their respective shows.
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4/10/2022 03:12:04 pm
I would agree with that, or perhaps some higher-ups pulled some strings. I know Tim Sheridan has said that he had to fight to get Flim Flam in Curse of the 13th Ghost, but in the case of Return to Zombie Island, there is a big lack of consideration for the original.
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Lamont
4/9/2022 09:30:02 pm
I agree with EVERYTHING you said. Scooby can work with real and fake but it all comes down to GOOD WRITING. The story has to be compelling in it’s plot while also keeping the Mystery element.
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4/10/2022 03:17:06 pm
I agree that Straight Outta Nowhere displays a good example of this. The monsters were kinda fake, but since they were from the Courage universe, they were also sort of real with the weird science explanation.
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Lamont
4/10/2022 11:39:39 pm
I meant to reply to this. How do I keep messing that up!! Lol!!
Lamont
4/10/2022 10:35:39 pm
It was probably their way of trying to make the monsters fake again. If they wanted to make the monsters fake that’s fine, but they shouldn’t have done it in those 2 movies. The way they tried to retcon the events of the past was such a huge letdown. And their attempt to leave things open at the end wasn’t that great either. And it didn’t help that both of Velma’s explanations weren’t even justifiable. Especially how she really tried to convince herself that the events Zombie Island was just the effects of swamp gas. That wasn’t even a logical conclusion even by Velma’s standards lol. I really hope WB learned their lesson because Happy Halloween, Sword and the SCOOB and Straight Outta Nowhere were HUGE improvements!
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4/11/2022 02:13:23 pm
Yeah, I would have been much more open to an open-ended conclusion if they would have ended it in a way that was actually open-ended, rather than Velma forcing her nonsensical opinions on everybody else. I don't know a single fan who liked Velma in those films. Maybe there's one out there, but even if there is, I can't imagine there are too many people who enjoyed them. I agree Sword and the Scoob, and especially Happy Halloween and Straight Outta Nowhere were big improvements from those two sequels. I hope they continue going in that direction, instead of making more sequels that don't stay true to the tone of the originals. I agree 13 Ghosts needed a conclusion - it was weird how they just ended it on the 12th ghost (or 11th, depending on whether or not you believe that the ghost captain was one of the ghosts). I've always wondered what their mentality was with having the season be 13 episodes. If they knew the first episode was just setup and didn't have the gang capture any ghosts, why didn't they just order 13 episodes? I also wouldn't mind if they tried to wrap it up again, as long as they acknowledged the source material, like you said.
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Felix Turner
1/16/2023 09:58:56 pm
Strong disagree here. The whole premise of the original Scooby-Doo is that the monsters are always a guy in a mask. Therefore the show exists in the real world (except for the the talking dog). If ghosts and monsters are real then we are in a whole different universe.
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1/17/2023 12:54:28 pm
Fair enough; thanks for sharing your opinion and welcome to the blog!
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Ganondox
1/19/2023 03:47:51 pm
I think having the occasional real monster with the majority being men in masks is the best. The fact monsters are established to be real adds mode plausibility to the guys in masks, while making it a thrilling surprise when the monster actually was real. Having a the right mixture enhances both aspects.
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1/19/2023 07:52:32 pm
I like your perspective that making real monsters occasional can increase the surprise of it. All in all, I think it comes down to having a good balance of not too many real, but also not all fake either.
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Somto Erinne
6/24/2023 10:28:01 pm
Real monsters are an interesting aspect.
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