Fun Fact of the Week #412

8/1/2022

Both Velma and her sister Madelyn (from Scooby-Doo! Abracadabra Doo)'s voice actresses were best known outside of Scooby for being on teen sitcoms. Mindy Cohn starred on The Facts of Life from 1979-1988. Danica McKellar, who voiced Velma's sister Madelyn, was best known for starring on The Wonder Years from 1988-1993.

25 Comments

James Dixon

8/1/2022 06:57:06 am

Amazing that that Danica started the year Mindy left.

What I found surprising about Danica is that she writes maths books for girls.

WildwindVampire link

8/1/2022 09:38:24 am

I had no idea Danica wrote math books! That's really interesting.

Jacob Berger

8/1/2022 07:08:28 am

Scooby-Doo! Abracadabra-Doo is a great movie. I wish Velma’s sister Madelyn could make a return in some type of movie or episode because she is a great character.

WildwindVampire link

8/1/2022 09:39:12 am

I always really liked Madelyn as a character too, and I'd love to see her return in a future film (or episode)! Hopefully it happens someday.

James Dixon

8/1/2022 11:37:27 am

I would love to see Madelyn again. It's weird that they ditched Scooby's relatives in the WBA era, maybe because they didn't want to have one of those one-offs popping up like in the HB era, but then they had Velma's one-off sister pop up.

She actually has a cameo in silhouette form in Frankencreepy, and then the script has Velma as an only sister. You can justify that as Madelyn not being the one targeted for revenge, but there's still an inconsistency.

WildwindVampire link

8/1/2022 01:54:34 pm

I've also always found it weird that we've never seen any of Scooby's relatives again after the HB era. Between The New Scooby and Scrappy-Doo Show and A Pup Named Scooby-Doo, which spanned almost a decade, Scooby's parents had become regular recurring characters in the show. They've had other gang relatives pop up for Fred, Daphne, Velma and Shaggy since that HB era, but nothing for Scooby.

I noticed that inconsistency in Frankencreepy as well. Makes me wonder if the writer and the animators had two different ideas of what was going to happen in the film, or if there were initially plans for Madelyn to make a cameo and it just didn't get changed (similarly to how they'd take things out or add things in Be Cool, Scooby-Doo! without JCB's knowledge).

Matt

8/1/2022 05:23:22 pm

My flaming hot take is that I didn’t love Madelyn as a side character? I think I would’ve liked her but I am not usually too big of a fan of romantic subplots in Scooby Doo in general. Hinting at Fred and Daphne once in a while as a joke (Bravo Dooby Doo) is fine but even the basic pairing there can get to where I don’t want to see too much of it.

So maybe if her character had less of liking Shaggy, I would’ve liked her better

A few exceptions off the top of my head are that I liked Fred and Daphne’s interactions in Zombie Island, as well as Velma and Beau’s though part of why I liked the latter is because it could be very well interpreted as being friendly at the end of the movie. I also liked Shaggy and Scooby’s interactions with Crystal and Amber as a subplot a lot. And Velma and Marcie were okay I guess

Becker

8/1/2022 05:31:28 pm

SDMI and Stage Fright suffered quite a lot from that kind of plots, so much focus on the romance. I do like how Fred/Daphne and Shaggy/Daphne were together in the original series and the mid 80s respectively, but they never mentioned or addressed them in the actual shows lol, we only know from the creators, I find it kinda funny but it somehow works well at the same time.

Matt

8/2/2022 07:49:35 pm

I agree so much. The Velma and Shaggy plot in SDMI was just awful, and Fred and Daphne got over the top as well. I only say Velma and Marcie was okay because it was subtle

And Stage Fright is a really cool premise for a movie regarding the numerous villains and Phantom of the Opera vibes and such, but I can’t help but cringe at Fred and Daphne’s song, as well as most of the romantic stuff in that movie… Still like the movie generally though

WildwindVampire link

8/3/2022 05:43:41 pm

I didn't mind Marcie and Velma either and I think it just goes to show that for it to work well, the romantic stuff needs to be subtle. It gets obnoxious when it's in-your-face.

WildwindVampire link

8/1/2022 09:19:29 pm

I didn't mind Madelyn, but I agree with you that romantic stuff in the franchise is done best in Zombie Island and Alien Invaders. The one aspect of SDMI I didn't like was the romantic subplots. I wouldn't have minded if they were minimal or background, but at times it felt like it would overtake the episodes (like the episodes with the Shaggy/Scooby/Velma choice subplot). Stage Fright suffered a bit from it too, as it just felt like a rehash of stuff that had already been explored.

Matt

8/2/2022 08:05:45 pm

I also feel like the idea of any of the gang being in a relationship is better kept as an unspoken concept when it happens, in most cases, like people liking the idea of Shaggy and Daphne being in a relationship in the 80s, or the hints in Where Are You

Becker

8/3/2022 07:53:46 am

I do wonder what would be a GOOD way to create a romantic plot in a Scooby show between 2 gang members? And the way they did it in the WAY and NS&SDS/NSDMy–13Ghosts doesn't count, as those were not romantic plots considering they were never directly addressed in the shows. I'm genuinely curious.
We already saw BAD ways in SDMI and Stage Fright. That aspect was honestly so unbearable to me that for a while I didn't think I actually liked SDMI, I realize now I do like it overall, but the romance drops it like a rock for me in my ranking and from how great it could've been otherwise.
Those instances pretty much turned me off from the ideas of Fred/Daphne and Shaggy/Velma completely (I still am), I couln't stand it one bit. So I guess suggestions for how to do a good romance with those ships just won't appeal to me no matter what. Because besides being jaded from those experiences, I also think in general that they are just too stereotypical, obvious and bland to be that engaging anyway.

Becker

8/3/2022 08:06:21 am

I'll also add that I think they did a better job in the 80s with that "don't show don't tell" strategy than they did in WAY. Because there really was absolutely nothing between Fred and Daphne to suggest that they were implicitly together except one "dance" or two, but those were also just partying and looked like the most careless types of dances on top of it lol.
As a kid I did not notice or pick up on anything that made me think they were together in the actual series. When the creators said later that they were apparently a couple, my reaction was like sure, why not, might as well say that to please the fans cuz it didn't appear to me like you wrote the show with that in mind, more so retroactively.
Meanwhile in the 80s they actually gave hints fairly consistently (from small ones to pretty clear and noticeable ones) that Daph and Shag had a thing and you could put the pieces together and realize yourself they were a couple. This time I actually believed the creator (Ruegger) when he said they wrote them with that in mind, it was clear to me. I liked Ruegger's approach the best of all the "attempts" at romance within the gang (not a high bar though).

WildwindVampire link

8/3/2022 05:47:50 pm

I agree that it's better to have it be either unspoken or very subtle. Anything else seems to detract from the mystery. I would argue Marcie and Velma's relationship was kind of a good way to do it, where it was subtle, but still noticeable. The problem with the other SDMI romances for me is that even though they were sub-plots, it felt like it took up so much screen time during the mysteries and distracted from them. The writers seemed to focus more on the romantic subplots at times than developing the actual mysteries, which is why it didn't work with me. I liked Ruegger's approach best too, although I wouldn't say it needs to be "don't show, don't tell." If it could be done in a non-cringey/stereotypical way by making it a very small part of the episode/movie, then I think it would work, but anything else would risk being cringey.

I never picked up on Fred and Daphne being a couple in the original series as a kid either. Honestly, by that assumption, you could presume Shaggy and Velma were also a couple in that show, since they danced together a few times too I believe.

Becker

8/4/2022 03:57:49 am

I'm not saying it should be "don't show don't tell", I'm just saying that's what HB was doing in those earler days. I'd like to see them do it well without reverting back to that old strategy.

The first time I watched SDMI, I didn't notice the Velma/Marcie subtext. Maybe it has to do with how done I was with Velma and her bs up to that point in the show, especially season 1. I couldn't stand her in so many moments, especially with how toxic she was to Shaggy and being mad at Scooby despite doing nothing bad. Shaggy went with the bros before hoes, why mad at the bro? Lol, but seriously, Shaggy standing up to himself againt Velma's abuses and ending it with her was one of the happiest I was during that show. Cuz man it was so sad seeing Shaggy go through all that crap. I think he handled the situation really well in the end, so good for Shaggy (and Scooby Ig).

That's true, the creators only mentioned Fred/Daphne when talking about "hidden romances", even though Shaggy/Velma had about as much hints as them, aka close to zero lol. I genuinely believe they just said it for the sake of the fans at the time, even all the "making of" featurettes and stories for WAY from back then had nothing pointing to the idea any of them were together.
So yeah, Ruegger did it better, just subtle enough with quite a good amount of hints of all sorts without directly addressing it in the show.

I don't think you can do a romantic subplot in a movie and resolve it without it overriding/overshadowing the rest of the film, that's what happened with Stage Fright. With the 99% lack of continuity of Scooby-Doo films, I don't think it's possible to introduce, develop, culminate and finalize a whole romantic subplot without giving it a lot of focus and becoming THE plot by the end of it all.
Having a couple scenes where someone feels jealous and by the end of the film everything's the same (something we see often in Scooby films) is not what a subplot is. No matter how good or bad they do that, it's not the definition of a romantic subplot.
So a show would be the only way to do it right, and that's pretty tricky in and of itself, but at least there's an existing example we can look at and do the opposite of when shit goes down lol.

WildwindVampire link

8/4/2022 10:56:00 am

Sorry, I misunderstood your original comment. I agree the way Velma was going about the relationship and making him choose between Scooby or her was super toxic. "Bros before hoes" lol.

Yeah, I do get the sense the original creators might have just said that to appease the fans. Ruegger was the only writer in that HB era to ever actually hint any romantic feelings between gang members. I agree with you it's not possible to have a romantic subplot in a film. I think if it were to be done, it would have needed to be done very slowly and subtly over the course of the series where there were just little hints here and there. I think it could be slightly more of a hint than Ruegger did in 13 Ghosts and such, but not much, otherwise you'd risk the mystery being overshadowed. I don't like the jealousy stuff either. It gets really annoying after a while because it's been done so many times, and done very badly each time it's been done IMO.

Becker

8/4/2022 11:44:37 am

Tbf Zombie Island did it alright I felt, as much as I'm not a Fred/Daphne guy. Witch's Ghost took it too far though, and it's been shitty like that since. The live-action films didn't do the romance in a remotely engaging way either. Funny how all of what I said is Fred/Daphne, hmmm, lmao.
Now, this is where personal preference/bias comes in, but even if they'll ever try to do the romance better than in SDMI, I don't think I'll care unless it's Shaggy/Daphne. I mentioned above multiple reason for my dislike of Fred/Daphne and Shaggy/Velma, and all the other pairings we never canonically got I can't see making sense based on the characters' personalities and type of chemistry.
Considering that to me '83-'85 were the best relationship between gang members, I wouldn't mind the Shaggy/Daphne ship/pairing again, I actually like it. But that relationship would have to be done with a different approach and actual acknowledgement, build-up and development, cuz you can't really repeat Ruegger's strat nowadays.

WildwindVampire link

8/4/2022 02:17:31 pm

I didn't mind Witch's Ghost at all and I would be okay with something like that happening again. Zombie Island did it well too.

Interesting. I can kind of see why you wouldn't want Fred and Daphne, since it's predictable and connecting it to the other article about Fred being a jock, it kind of plays on stereotypes to have them together (the good-looking guy gets the pretty girl, whereas the hippie gets the nerd). Shaggy and Daphne fit together well personality wise too, at least IMO. I will admit I didn't used to be a fan of Shaggy/Daphne, but I warmed up to the idea when I decided to write it in a fanfic.

Becker

8/4/2022 02:32:14 pm

They fit better personality wise than Velma and Fred respectively, at least imo.

WildwindVampire link

8/4/2022 02:59:50 pm

Agreed. I forgot to respond to the part about the live-action films in my last comment, and yeah, I didn't think it was done well there either. Especially in Curse of the Lake Monster. They played it up as if it were the most shocking thing ever, but it was just dumb and cringey. Particularly if you watched SDMI weekly as it was airing like I did, since Curse of the Lake Monster aired right after "The Secret Serum" which was in the midst of the Velma/Shaggy drama in that series as well.

Becker

8/4/2022 03:23:15 pm

Shame that bringing back the pairing with the most chemistry that's also not cliche is about as likely as Scrappy making a comeback.

For as good as the early 2010s were for Scooby, that was also the period where the romance was at its absolute peak no doubt – SDMI, Curse of the Lake Monster, Stage Fright, plus bits of jealousy in like every other film.. that's the thing I could've happily done without in that time.

WildwindVampire link

8/5/2022 02:47:00 pm

It is a shame we probably won't ever see a Shaggy/Daphne pairing again. I would argue SDMI is what inspired all of the romantic subplots during the early 2010 films/specials (since some jealousy happens in Mecha Mutt Menace too). For whatever reason, they must have thought people liked it in SDMI.

Shadowscooby

8/4/2022 09:38:26 pm

Scooby Doo Abracadabra Doo:
This was an amazing movie. First off I really liked the new animation style and seeing the gang in their original outfits. We haven’t scene them in their original outfits since Monster of Mexico.

The opening credits with the gang and the chemical creep was good. It really reminded me of A Pup Named Scooby Doo because the gang and the chemical creep were dancing. Shaggy even danced the way he did in APNSD.

This movie was also the start of Matthew Lillard taking over the voice of Shaggy after Casey Kasem’s retirement.

This movie had a dark tone to it which is kind of interesting when it seems like a lighthearted film since it’s centered on magic. The setting of Whirlen’s Magic Academy was nice and creepy. I liked Whirlen and his magic tricks.

Madelyn Dinkley was a nice character. Her and her sister Velma’s relationship was nice. Her having a crush on Shaggy was cute. I also like the subplot of her being kidnapped and the gang had to save her.

Alma the maid reminded me of Helga the maid from Nowhere to Hyde. They are both serious looking and grumpy. They both find Shaggy and Scooby in rooms an are annoyed with them being in those rooms. They both have interesting backgrounds.

The Gryphon was a great, creepy and original villain. I liked that it’s part bird and part lion. The Banshee was also a great villain. I liked that she appeared to be beautiful then turned into a hideous horrific hag with a ghostly whail.

I liked scene with the faculty teaching the gang how to do magic tricks and the song Magic playing during it.

I liked that Fred mentioned danger prone. I don’t think we’ve heard danger prone since Loch Ness Monster.

Marlon being the culprit was kind of surprising. I completely understand why he did it and felt bad for him. All he wanted was his own magic act and be in the spotlight for once.

Calvin Curdles wanting to buy the castle so that he can be with Alma again was sweet. They used to be boyfriend and girlfriend but then he left. It was nice that they kissed but it grossed out everybody else haha.

The ending was nice with the Merlin Brothers are doing an act together and Madison is their apprentice. Daphne is her assistant after being trained by Crystal. Calvin Curdles sponsors the whole thing. It was funny that Scooby was operating a puppet version of himself to tame the lion.

WildwindVampire link

8/5/2022 02:51:33 pm

I loved this movie too! It's my favorite animated Scooby film of the 2010s era. I liked that the gang got their original outfits back. The opening credits were fun, and it's interesting to think we could have gotten a whole Scooby-Doo series in that style. I like Whirlen's character too. The dark tone of this movie was excellent, and I like the castle as a setting. Madelyn was an excellent character and I hope she returns someday. She's probably my favorite of Velma's relatives. Both of the villains in this movie were amazing. The gryphon was a super unique villain as you said, and I love how terrifying the banshee was. It was cool how she could switch between beautiful to hideous forms. I was surprised Marlin was the villain too. The ending was very nice.

Fun Fact of the Week #412

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